Anderson Cooper’s Scathing Exposes By The Lies Of Sarah Sanders | CNN Anderson Cooper

to see someone in government not tell the truth isn’t certainly nothing new and to hear White House press secretary spin information certainly isn’t new either but have we now entered a new age of misinformation Frank Bruni from The New York Times wrote a piece about that today focusing on press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders her trouble with the truth goes back long before this week though everything you’re about to hear is in this soundbite is actually not true I don’t think it’s appropriate to laugh from the podium or any other place he said the process has people calling us a joke and calling us a laughingstock that’s pretty bold accusation it’s a converse the conversations took place they just simply didn’t take place over a phone call that he had them in person and I have heard from a large number of individuals that work at the FBI that said that they’re very happy with the president’s decision that’s what we are the highest tax corporate nation that’s not what he said he said were the highest tax nation in the world the highest tax corporate nation that seems pretty consistent to me sorry we’re just gonna have to disagree joining me is New York Times op-ed columnist Frank Bruni and Scott Jennings former special assistant to President George W Bush Frank you write that you watch Sarah Sanders press briefings with what you described as sheer awe I know you didn’t mean it as a compliment in fact you say quote we’ve surrendered any expectation of honesty and that you actually miss Sean Spicer can you just explain that I when I watched Sean Spicer he would get this panicked looked he would he would he would appear to me flustered like he kind of knew he was a man swinging swimming against the current and he was never going to keep his head above water Sarah Huckabee Sanders seems utterly at peace with the fictions that she peddles and and I find that disturbing I also find it disturbing I don’t see her attracting the the sensor of the ridicule that Sean Spicer did and I think that’s because nine months into the Trump administration we are all so accustomed to being lied to we’re so accustomed to seeing you know villain portrayed as victim bad portrayed as good and that really worries me because I worry you know bigger than her I worry that the Trump administration is lowering our standards for government you think this has become normalized absolutely yeah and I think it’s not normal listen every press secretary I’ve been around for a while as have you every press secretary that we’ve watched over the decades has has tried to make his or her boss look you know as heroic as possible portray them in the best light and to that extent some of what she’s doing is just par for the course but she goes the extra mile Scott I’m wondering what you make of what Frank is saying and the job that star Sanders is doing well two things number one I think that if what you’re wishing for is for a White House press secretary to walk out to the podium and trash their boss or correct their boss or sort of line up with where the press corps is on Donald Trump that is not going to happen it’s not going to happen in this White House it’s not going to happen in any White House so number two I appreciate what Frank says about previous press secretaries but I think that he’s describing Sarah Sanders and Sean Spicer before her as though they have taken it to a level we’ve never seen when I remember watching Josh earnest at the podium lie about the nature of President Ronald Reagan’s victories I remember watching him lie about the four hundred million dollars in ransom we paid Iran and I don’t remember anybody showing outrage about the White House press secretary then so I tend to think people are viewing these press secretaries through the lens of their own personal hatred for the president and that is rubbing off on how they view the staff Frank well I I respectfully disagree I think if you watch especially over the last week and that’s why I wrote the column at the end of this week if you watch Sarah Huckabee Sanders behavior at the lectern this week there’s a kind of contempt that she and so many other people in the Trump administration show for the media that I think is beyond what we’ve seen before well Frank the moment we heard earlier when Sanders was pressed on the president’s assertion that the u.s. is flat-out the highest tax ination on earth in fact that’s not accurate and she she you know we’ve this response I guess the president’s allies would say look she’s just helping him clarify his remarks well I mean she is but she’s also pretending that that’s exactly what he said and there was a moment this week when Jim Acosta said you know the president said that our justice system is a joke and a laughingstock and she got into it with him she corrected him and she gave him a different version of it that in fact was farther from his verbatim words than what Jim Acosta had explained there’s this reflexive you are all wrong and we are all right I think frequently Sarah is in the position of having to explain again and again and again what Donald Trump does so well he absorbs people’s emotions and then he reflects those emotions particularly of his base in a lot of his comments and I think that is frequently mischaracterized is her lying or is her trying to clean things up but she’s explaining what Donald Trump is doing and it continues to baffle the media that that’s what he does very well and so I think that press Secretary’s over the years have evolved from public information officers into essentially the chief white house pundit they are the core reflection of how the occupant of the Oval Office sees the world and we’re holding Sarah and we held Shawn to a standard that I’m not sure we held previous press secretaries to maybe we should have and that’s a debate we could have but you use the word contempt I mean if she holds you all in contempt I mean I would respectfully say that the media frankly looks like they hold Donald Trump in contempt and so the contempt is flowing both ways I tend to agree ratcheting down the contempt would be better but this is not a one-way street when it comes to contempt in this is a briefing room right now it’s it’s not a one-way street to put but to pretend that we can evaluate Sean Spicer and Sarah Huckabee Sanders in the context of all previous press press Secretary’s is to pretend something bigger which is that Donald Trump is a truly normal president and would you really say that Scott no I agree with you this is not a normal presidency as compared to what we’ve seen but I do think what is normal is the White House press secretary essentially being a reflection of how that particular president views the world now how he views the world may be different and abnormal as you put it but that doesn’t make the press secretary abnormal and what they’re doing which is reflecting how their boss sees things when she was asked about the president’s ridiculous and you know incredibly inappropriate tweet about Mika Brzezinski she kind of went on this reverie about what a heroic man he was and how he’s so tough and strong and that’s why Americans love him it’s always a little bit too much and too far now if that’s what the president demands that’s what the president demands but she is under no obligation to continue serving him well not not only is that what the president demands in this case but what you just described to her is exactly what Donald Trump does I mean you would probably argue that he always goes too far that he takes things more so again I I go I go back to this point the White House press secretary has become a reflection of the thinking of their boss it was true for Obama’s press people for bushes for Clinton’s you know and it seems to get more pronounced as time goes on but it is not unique to this White House even if this presidency is not normal it’s not unique to this White House well Frank Bruni Scott Jennings appreciate it thank you said in the wake of the terror attack in New York that killed eight people he’s calling on Congress to immediately end the diversity immigrant visa program calling it a quote disaster for our country this program grants visas not on a basis of merit but simply because applicants are randomly selected in an annual lottery and the people put in that lottery are not that country’s finest we know that the program presents significant vulnerabilities to our national security it’s a very unsafe program for our country and would not gonna allow it to happen back now the panel joined the conversation Peter bynarr and Christine Quinn I just want to point out yesterday circa Huckabee Sanders said there was no vetting of the people in this program which is not actually the case they’re actually vetted as much as anybody else is vetted to come to this country you can argue the vetting is not strong enough you can argue that we shouldn’t have this program all that’s to be discussed which I’m clear as to here do you what do you think of this program well let’s remember it also was a bipartisan program when it was developed but a lot of a lot of people have been trying to get rid of it absolutely but let’s just make sure you know and I I’ve said I take umbrage as a New Yorker that it’d be got blamed on Chuck Schumer right so we just need to be about the facts of the evolution I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to have a debate an appropriate policy debate about different programs in immigration but this isn’t that this is a immediately in the wake of a terrorist attack in the city that suffered the worst terrorist attack in history moving immediately to kind of Rock’em Sock’em blame each other politics a B it’s drawing conclusions based exclusively on the program that this killer got in through none of that is helpful none of that is thoughtful and none of that I believe will really address the problems as it relates to terrorists coming into New York but what it also really did and I want to be clear Democrats can be criticized of this just as much as Republicans in the wake of a tragedy the President and other electeds have done a to didn’t take on the job of uniting didn’t take on the job of bringing us together he took on the mode of splitting us apart and look we’re in New York we will always take care of ourselves and we will always push on but that’s not right for America and it clouds this whole conversation which is an important one I don’t mean this program you know listen both sides do it all the time what you’re saying sort of to take advantage of the dynamics to push a public policy the Democrats are guilty it I guess the Republicans are guilty but what is wrong with reviewing our immigration laws that protect Americans but nothing’s wrong with it but what’s wrong with it is doing it moments after were people were plowed down the stones Peter when you hear the president say you know the people in this lottery are not the country’s best yeah let’s look I think actually there’s a pretty good argument to get rid of this lottery program but the let’s be clear about what Trump’s agenda is right don’t from first of all wants to cut immigration in half overall right regardless of how people come in right secondly he wants fewer Mexicans and he wants fewer Muslims its entire absolutely obvious if you go back to the campaign that that is the agenda that’s now at that and he should be honest about that right if he wants to the the problem with it yeah absolutely because he proposed a Muslim ban right nobody hears you and Brian go chain migration it’s clearly aimed at the fact that we have a large Latino population that is bringing in family members if you don’t think that’s a dog whistle two people who watch right Bart you don’t listen to another we don’t want right right all right I don’t Brian respond you know listen it’s the whole thing that he was targeting Mexicans I actually find offensive you know I myself and from Hispanic descent I never felt targeted by that what I feel attacked judge Korea you didn’t feel targeted by that that bothered me that made me a lot of it that made me very uneasy because that’s an American citizen that actually did make me uneasy you pointed out something but the whole this a blanket statement that he doesn’t want Mexicans in here it’s just not great this criminals just not accurate as my point it’s like he even said we’re gonna build a wall and we’re gonna but we’re gonna have a nice door that’s gonna let the people in through a proper vetting process what is wrong with that system look two things first of all on the one point that Christine made early about his attack on Chuck Schumer I thought it was completely untimely and inappropriate and it’s something that he has done over and over again he attacked the mayor of San Juan right after the hurricane there he attacked the Mayor of London right after the terrorist attack there that’s just not the time to be making political points against a hometown elected official now on the on the lottery visa look I think this country I think politicians have a right and a responsibility to take a look at what’s best for the country we should have a conversation about a modern immigration system comprehensive immigration system that meets the requirements of the modern economy in America we have right now the DREAM Act that’s being discussed there’s a deadline for it we’ve got this lottery visa program that’s being discussed all of that was part of the gang of eight comprehensive immigration proposal a few years ago it is time to take a a comprehensive look at this come up with a bipartisan proposal as that was and try to address all these issues look I think everybody here I think you’re missing what’s happening I mean Americans that was uh you’re right that was on the table comprehensive amnesty for illegal so it’s on the table rejected not only by the Congress but then by the American people the president ran Donald Trump ran on a message from the time he came down escalator he said and an Americans bought into it we’re sick of an immigration system that allows these people to come and kill us whatever the system is that’s bad or good however the vetting happen or didn’t we’re sick of it and when he says we’re gonna change the system what he’s doing is turning up the pressure on politicians have said that have shown that they’re spineless and feckless and the people are sick of it so I oh the harshness of it all that hey you know what eight people are dead because of a system that is broken then we gotta go crissy you know I just find it the vast greatest example of hypocrisy that when eight people are dead it appears to be killed by a Muslim we immediately attacked that group of people but when a white man should we not let people from Florida go to Nevada because of what that man did at Las Vegas no it is the same but the president picks a lot of people who I am talking but president picks out people who he believes will easily be hated that other people will turn against and he rips us apart he is a hypocrite and if he really was going to be straight across the board we would look at issues in the way anisette all he wants to do is engender fear he doesn’t want to find solutions and we’re good he did saying nothing about Las Vegas and the man who perpetrated that what does Floridians have to stay in Florida we gotta go I want to thank everybody bring in the panel Molly ball Anna Navarro and Martin Asher drunk Appa Brian Lanza and Michael Zeldin Michael let’s start with you I mean there’s a lot of moving parts on this given your experience with Muller what stands out to you today based on all the tap well what stands out most is that the President of the United States cannot go under oath that his disconnected stories over the course of these months that we’ve been following this create for him the possibility of a perjury trap if he goes under oath and I think Ty Cobb and John Dowd know this I think that that’s his personal greatest liability can he avoid going under oath at some point no probably not but they’ll try to stretch it out as long as they possibly can so they know as much as they possibly can so they can create a narrative that hopefully he can stick to as a witness or chinky can’t go under oath because he’s not being truthful or he can’t go under oath because he just may not recall or he doesn’t have the ability to recall all of these moving parts I think he can’t tell the truth that’s what I’m saying I think that he can’t go under oath from a legal jeopardy standpoint because he doesn’t tell the truth with respect to what he knows and that is a problem and if you’re ty cobb or John Dowd you have to make sure that the president is protected and the way you protect him is to keep him from testifying under oath if possible or at least having testified under oath at the very end so when you know as much as you can about people what people have said and that you can create a narrative that you can stick to that’s truthful I think that well I think that the fact that they’re getting Kushner’s take on what happened with the Comey firing makes it pretty clear that Muller has an obstruction case on the president and he intends to build it remember when obstruction is when you take an action which may in itself actually be legal but you do it for corrupt reasons okay you do it for reasons that you know are wrong and that’s difficult to prove it’s it’s hard to get into somebody’s mind Muller as many things but he’s not a mind reader so he’s gonna go to things that were said and done and and written before and after and this is an administration that has very loose fingers okay I mean we know just from these Russian emails or whatever that they’re they are not careful about what they’ve been like loose lips also losing I mean we know that the President himself tweaks think half of the obstruction case has been created by the President himself against himself so you know this town Kushner is is of interest because not only I mean his entire role in the in the campaign and financial dealings of his own that that may be an issue but in terms of the Comey firing and also on the flight where they’re crafting the letter for Gotham jr. so so that here’s where the Russia ties come in if there are connections between Kushner and Russia and Don jr. and all these things that creates a motive for Trump to want to make this go away so again those contacts will help bolster Muller’s case of obstruction against the president as will any you know financial shenanigans that may have been happening in the past but all of these give a vested interest on the part of the president to want this investigation to go away which which will help Muller in his obstruction case just to follow up on that to my point that the president has having trouble telling the truth the airforce one story that was put forth initially about the June 9th meeting was just not true and if he said that under oath to Muller the initial story that I had nothing to do with I don’t know anything about it that would be a lie that would be an actionable false statement for which Papadopoulos tells us you could go to jail for several years that’s the that’s the greatest risk for the president well I I’m almost stunned to listen to this I mean we’re speculating about things that didn’t happen might happen Europe you’ve got him on perjury charges you know today’s news is that we have a junior staffer who says in a meeting that he was big-timing trying to say I’ll set up a meeting with Putin and everybody said don’t bother I don’t know if you have ever anybody here has been on a campaign Ana has when you especially a big campaign she’s been on bigger ones there’s lots of people in the room trying a big time and say hey I’ll do this I’ll do that I’ve got donors or whatever so we’re taking that and we’re going all the way forward to the parties now he’s big time because he actually did have contact with you couldn’t well you can see it he’s and and they’ve all said that they know no one did anything with it the fact that it’s not remembered by anybody as an indication that this was a guy who was trying to I mean my argument is never buy this guy JD Gordon who is sitting there right but my arguments applause what may okay he’s another junior staffer but I mean the fact that sessions and Trump don’t believe it is as likely as this Nydia that they sat there and said oh my goodness let’s go to Russia oh no we won’t tell anyone about it I mean they don’t remember that conversation of some staffer and now we’re all the way back to some kind of convoluted theory of perjury I’ve never heard anyone talk about that the president the president does not tell the truth under oath has an accessory of under oath not telling the truth I mean his lawsuit against him O’Brien I mean he he was demonstrably lying I know you know dozens of times well but whatever it is in the past that we want to point to that says now therefore that what’s true as a Russia conspiracy there’s no evidence of a rush of Russia impact in the election there’s now a kind of a hunt on by Muller to think that Jared Kushner I mean look at that your interview before I think it was very important Anderson on the show with Schwartz he said Muller will get him not on anything to do with Russia he’ll just get him on something from his past financial if that’s the goal stated by Muller or anybody else that’s the problem right we’re in a pro this is a COO of the American people’s election well first of all Muller has not stated that right so when we’re talking about speculation that is speculation on your part I have been on big campaigns I’ve never seen coffee boys be able to have direct communication with campaign managers or sit around the table with the top executives the top echelon of the campaign look I think what this tells us is as we said you’re trying to read tea leaves it’s just how thorough how focused how concentrated Bob Muller is he’s not paying attention to the noise around him he has amassed a an impressive entourage an impressive team of the best prosecutors and investigators in this country he is peeling away the layers of this onion and somebody’s going to end up crying I mean as a non legal expert right not a prosecutor not a lawyer I have no idea what if any case Muller may be trying to build but from the standpoint of a political observer and a Trump observer it’s very clear that some of trumps most sensitive areas are under the microscope right now and that’s part of what a prosecutor does is put pressure on areas that he knows are sensitive right so the fact that he’s looking into old financial dealings things from long before the campaign in the White House will tell you look all of this stuff that man afford and gates are being ignited indicted for is way before they ever took up with Trump that’s true but what Trump may be hearing from that is they’re looking at old tax returns but it was also allegedly going on during the campaign I mean there were efforts to you know there there was outreach to Russian oligarchs about briefings on the campaign and things like that nature the activity and the indictment for the most part the stuff that they’re looking at with the activities in Ukraine had nothing to do with the Trump campaign Excel Mali for the part about the Republican convention that Manafort managed where the Republican platform specifically on Ukraine was changed to you know benefit the benefactors of Palmetto there’s a connection there we got to take a quick break we’re gonna more with the panel I want to get a Ryan in on this as well the president made the newest remarks to a radio station time we’ll play you those and later new remarks on the President on immigrants after this week’s attack here and the controversy they may be causing ahead we’ll talk about that he lamented his limited options the saddest thing is that because of the President of the United States I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department I’m not supposed to be involved with the FBI I’m not supposed to be doing the kind of things that I would love to be doing and I’m very frustrated by it I back now with the panel Brian we didn’t get to hear from you what do you make of all the day’s developments today let’s let’s I guess there’s three we’ll go one by one you know the Jared what we learned about Jared is that he is fully cooperating he volunteered the information same information he’s volunteered to all the congressional committees looking into this Russia stuff he’s been transparent and I think that’s what you want that’s not certainly somebody who’s hiding anything that’s somebody who is focused on the President’s agenda although a number of his his declaration forums did have to be amended first I’m sure the others will be a minute as they go forward with other people I mean the fact is is he amended him he didn’t say no he didn’t stick to whatever was there he clearly acknowledged that a mistake was made and he amended him he didn’t say anything different than that and I think that’s what we have to look at as for you know whether the president should should go on you know whether he should be put you know through through asked questions by the investigator I think the president knows what the stakes are and I think he’s gonna answer all those questions honestly I think yes somebody who worked on the campaign there was you know you know I sort of sit here and I and I and I get I’m a it’s rather obnoxious to he everybody talked about this residue collusion when you know the facts just don’t bear out when we know the fact that there was only one campaign that hired a foreign national that coordinated with Russians to get involved in this campaign and that was the Clinton campaign you can’t deny those facts now you have public what were you involved with Cambridge an analytic and their conversation so you don’t know what went on there you’re right I don’t know went on there but we’ve always oh and and one and on Air Force One when when when they wrote that letter hire different we’re on Air Force One to coordinate with the Russians that’s what we do know so again you’re on Air Force One you were not on Air Force One when that conversation about coming up with a reason for Donald Trump you so I’m not in a lot going on there was any but I’m talking about my campaign experience or I’m talking about the facts that exist right now crying and so the facts don’t don’t the facts are what they are you have a lot of sort of conjecture of what the Trump campaign did or what the Trump campaign didn’t you have a vendor who reached out to Asajj who not we didn’t know anything about it reached out and sort of turned them down but when you look at compared to what else exists is we have one campaign were you aware during the campaign that Papadopoulos had had this conversation with the Russian professor and had been in contact with Paul Manafort about it no okay so there were there were there was stuff going on the campaign’s and you that other people would not be yes but let’s look at what the facts are we know that Papadopoulos you know George papadopolis you know he’s he’s now a convicted felon he’s a convicted liar he lied to the FBI it’s not like nobody knows not the lie to the FBI there’s been enough information out there that his investigation is going on everybody’s gonna say the way they made the way that Mueller’s gonna get you is by lying to the FBI and he still chose the loss why would George papadopolis lie to the FBI I mean Michael you work for the mother what why you know anybody’s watch a cop show and knows that well I haven’t been watching Matlock III think that he thought I’m reading into his mind which I’m not very good at but I think that he thought that he could either one get away with it or two thought that he was protective of the institution that he worked for and may want to work for because it makes no sense objectively why would you lie when the FBI asked you a question so he had to he he had to have some rationale for it and usually I think it’s because they think they’ll get away with it might have been cuz he thought he was a small fish you know and this big pond where there’s so many people with much bigger names and much bigger roles that are being taken a look at now one of the one of the interesting aspects about the kushnir angle is the big they can’t deny Jared Kushner right they deny practically everybody else Papadopoulos cuz you know his name just rolls off the tongue oh no we don’t know who he is he was a coffee boy man afford oh he was you know he had a minor role he was just around for a few months Rick who that who’s that one Rick who through with Jared Kushner you can’t deny Jared Kushner can I can I make a comment on what we heard the president say in that interview I think it’s very important I think it’s the kind of a setup for what we may see you know Schwartz said it we’re coming towards a crisis I suspect at least a crisis of understanding if the president knighted States is not in charge of the Justice Department he’s not in charge of the Attorney General if he’s not in charge of that then no one is and we’re gonna have J Edgar Hoover on steroids going forward and my point is want the prison in the United States I’ll be able to I want it yeah what the press weren’t the course of justice no it’s not the course of justice I want them to be the president of the executive branch it’s a little bit like today when we’re gonna sit the next next subject so you don’t want the FBI to be independent or not you might you might be able to get exile in Cuba maybe Venezuela even the Philippines if you want that kind of dictatorship if you want that ownership is exactly you’re saying you want the President of the United States to be in charge of the FBI in terms of getting involved with I will tell you that it’s very scary particularly when you have a president that goes on vendetta’s Anderson very quickly the IRS there was a big question the IRS targeted people when Obama was in that we’re in conservative groups that was shown to be somewhat true right that is bombers that’s Obama a much somewhat true mostly Filosa but I mean okay so one infringement on people’s rights is okay with you but not mostly but let me finish let me finish then let me okay but either we have a constitution that allows an election to be meaningful or we have a country run by bureaucrats we have a country run by the deep state I don’t think we do I think we have so anybody I mean so you want any administration that comes in to be able to determine who should get investigated who’s you don’t want there to be a permanent class of professionals who work for the FBI over the way ultimately you know when the FBI does something wrong and when the justices apart something wrong you know who’s responsible for that who is accountable for that I mean these are appointed officials so you go to the elected official who’s accounted for the Constitution right so the president is in charge of the executive branch and with respect to policy he sets policy for the Justice Department and for the FBI cousin with respects not the Constitution yes that’s okay that that is the the manner in which by by policy for 50 years the the president interfaces with the bureau and with the Justice Department all other branches of the executive with respect to defining the policy of the executive branch what he cannot do by policy is interfere with specific criminal cases and what the president’s Mal interview seemed too real amount was that he couldn’t do that no one prevents him from running the executive branch as a policy matter but policy and good judgment and good government prevents him from interfering in particular criminal matters especially when he and his family are members of the interrogated so let’s continue this discussion it’s important one will pick it up right after the break

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